Episode 58
Avoid These 3 Screen Time Mistakes: Expert Tips For Parents with Jessie Liew
Looking for a better way to manage your kid's screen time? Dive into the latest "Unshakable Habits" episode with Stephen Box and cybersecurity pro Jessie Liew, as they explore why strict screen limits might not work and how understanding your child is key. Learn to tackle tech's addictive lure and access Jessie's helpful webinar for top parenting tips. Join us and gain the tools to create a healthier digital environment for your family. Listen now and take the first step towards balanced screen habits!
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Resources From This Episode:
- neverfightwithyourkids.com
- Webinar: 20 Painful Mistakes that Parents Regret Making In Their Children’s Screen Time and How to Avoid Them
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IG/Twitter/Linkedin: @jessieliewsp
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Transcript
The second mistake that people are making is they try to use rules.
Stephen:I think this is a natural extension of the first mistake, right?
Stephen:You're trying to limit your child's screen time.
Stephen:They resist, they fight it, they sneak around.
Stephen:It leads to a bunch of yelling and arguing.
Stephen:And at some point you start to feel powerless and you go.
Stephen:I'm the parent.
Stephen:This is what we're doing.
Stephen:And you make rules.
Stephen:Jesse, you're going to tell us why making rules does not work.
Stephen:Welcome to the Unshakable Habits podcast, where we help you to
Stephen:build the habits and routines that help build the life you want.
Stephen:So you can turn everyday actions into powerful wins for your
Stephen:health, mindset, relationships.
Stephen:and professional growth.
Stephen:I am your host, Stephen Box.
Stephen:And you may have gathered today, we're going to be talking about helping you
Stephen:to reduce your child's screen time.
Stephen:This is something that I've had a lot of clients and a lot of friends even
Stephen:share with me can be quite the struggle.
Stephen:It creates a lot of conflict in the house.
Stephen:And according to my guest today, Jesse Luo, There are 20 different mistakes
Stephen:that parents make when it comes to trying to reduce their child's screen time.
Stephen:And today, Jesse is going to share with us the top 3 or 4 mistakes that you
Stephen:might be making and what to do instead.
Stephen:So today, I think you guys are going to get tremendous, as a matter
Stephen:of fact, I know that you guys are going to get tremendous value.
Stephen:Out of this, because Jesse is going to point out the most common
Stephen:mistakes that people are making and give you the alternative to do.
Stephen:And then if you want to learn some of the other things that might be going on, Jesse
Stephen:has a webinar that covers 20 different mistakes that parents might be making.
Stephen:So with that, allow me to introduce my guest today, Jesse Luau.
Stephen:Jesse, how are you doing today?
Stephen:I'm good.
Stephen:How are you today?
Stephen:I'm good.
Stephen:Jesse, let's start off with how did you get into this idea of helping
Stephen:parents limit screen time for children?
Stephen:Like what made this a passion project for you?
Jessie Liew:Okay, actually, I didn't spot this specifically on my mind.
Jessie Liew:Uh, it was actually an accident somehow because, because of my
Jessie Liew:background, I actually worked 14 years in cyber security and my
Jessie Liew:husband is also in, it's a tech guy.
Jessie Liew:So actually both of us, we are trying to delay the technology use
Jessie Liew:it in our children because number one, the internet is not safe.
Jessie Liew:My background, we know what is out there.
Jessie Liew:And then secondly, we know that we are computer science graduate.
Jessie Liew:We know all these device are very addictive and that's why we want to delay.
Jessie Liew:Okay.
Jessie Liew:But when the pandemic came, like March 2020, the whole world shuts
Jessie Liew:down and my kid has to go to the online in order to continue the
Jessie Liew:online learning journey for that.
Jessie Liew:So I realized that, oh, shit, I can't delay anymore.
Jessie Liew:And therefore I decided I need to do something because if not, my children
Jessie Liew:will be also be addicted, like other kids, addicted to the screen time.
Jessie Liew:That's it.
Jessie Liew:So, so.
Jessie Liew:Uh, a problem that I heard a lot of my friends complaining about.
Jessie Liew:And when one of my friends actually called me up and shared, she was
Jessie Liew:fighting with her teenage son to, to wrestle the smartphone physically
Jessie Liew:from her son, because of her son's gaming addiction, it got me shocked.
Jessie Liew:And then I was like, Oh my God.
Jessie Liew:And then I realized that maybe something that I need to share with the world.
Jessie Liew:And that's how my journey started.
Stephen:Okay.
Stephen:Yeah.
Stephen:So let's dive into this a little bit, right?
Stephen:First of all, why is this a problem?
Jessie Liew:Actually, all these smartphones, they are actually designed
Jessie Liew:to get us hooked to the device.
Jessie Liew:So if I actually study, there's a good book called Sock by Nir et al.
Jessie Liew:It actually explains, it's actually a habit book that explains why all of us
Jessie Liew:are actually hooked to the platform.
Jessie Liew:Like Facebook, Instagram, all the social media, even the YouTube.
Jessie Liew:All these, they actually install the gamification process and
Jessie Liew:they also have the triggers.
Jessie Liew:It's like a habit system look to actually hook us to the platform again.
Jessie Liew:And, and because the habit has been repeated so many times, it
Jessie Liew:just become like subconscious.
Jessie Liew:Like I think right now, not to say about children, even most
Jessie Liew:adults, they are addicted.
Jessie Liew:If they're waiting in, maybe they're waiting for a train, they're boring.
Jessie Liew:Then there were things is they just look at the smartphone.
Jessie Liew:Even in the train, they were looking at the smartphone, and I even see
Jessie Liew:some people crossing the road, even with the smartphone, which is quite,
Jessie Liew:could be quite dangerous, right?
Jessie Liew:And that's why I realized that I do want that to actually shape the habits in my
Jessie Liew:children, and I recognize that I need to do something, because if not, not,
Jessie Liew:uh, my children will be also addicted, because if adults have so much difficulty
Jessie Liew:to not be distracted and hold to the backbone, what about our children?
Stephen:Yeah, and I think this is a good point to kind of point out here.
Stephen:As adults, we have fully developed functioning brains.
Stephen:And most of us, maybe the younger generation, but when I say most of
Stephen:us, I'm thinking like people my age and older, and people even a few years
Stephen:younger than me, had the benefit of growing up without all this technology.
Stephen:And even we're addicted to all the technology in the screens now.
Stephen:And so if people who grew up without all that stuff can get hooked on it,
Stephen:and I imagine it's really difficult for the younger generation whose brains are
Stephen:still developing, that they're still taking in all these ideas, that they're
Stephen:still trying to figure out who they are.
Stephen:that this really is a problem for them and it's going to be much more difficult
Stephen:for them to break this habit later on because they don't even have a framework
Stephen:reference for what it was like without it.
Jessie Liew:Yeah, totally agree.
Jessie Liew:Like we, we can totally refer back to the old days when you were younger and
Jessie Liew:you don't have the smartphone and when you were younger, like a teenager,
Jessie Liew:you just take the phone, take your bags and with the books, we even go
Jessie Liew:to hang out with our friends and we didn't, you actually have to code.
Jessie Liew:And decide that, okay, I'm going to meet you there at 1.
Jessie Liew:40 and you have to be punctual there because you can't call
Jessie Liew:anyone, anybody else if you late.
Jessie Liew:But right now everybody has the smartphone.
Jessie Liew:So it's actually a different world that our children are born in.
Jessie Liew:They are actually born in this digital era.
Stephen:Yeah.
Stephen:And I think most people, when they start thinking about technology, yeah.
Stephen:And I'm, I don't have children myself, just full disclosure.
Stephen:So I'm basing this off of what I've heard from my friends who are, right.
Stephen:Yeah.
Stephen:is it seems like there's a few different buckets that people put
Stephen:technology use into and they don't necessarily put them together, which I
Stephen:find interesting because I teach this concept of connected health, right?
Stephen:We're, we're looking at the physical, the mental, the emotional, the
Stephen:relationships, the environment.
Stephen:And your bigger sense of purpose or your existential health.
Stephen:And I find that most people, when I talk to them, they don't stop to think about
Stephen:how those interconnect to each other.
Stephen:How they view them almost as separate things.
Stephen:And I think the exact same thing applies to the technology conversation.
Stephen:There's, yes, the connection aspect of technology, which we
Stephen:already touched on a little bit.
Stephen:But there's also the dangerous side of technology, right?
Stephen:There's kids out there getting addicted to pornography.
Stephen:There's predators out there online who are making contact with children, right?
Stephen:Those are two big ones that people think about.
Stephen:But I think one that doesn't get discussed enough is bullying.
Stephen:When I was a kid, I got bullied.
Stephen:I got bullied at school and then I came home and I didn't
Stephen:have to deal with my bully.
Stephen:You With technology, you can literally be bullied 24 7.
Stephen:And I think it's important to have this conversation about technology
Stephen:and some of the dangers of it because people don't necessarily stop to think.
Stephen:They think of the big concerns, but they don't think about the small micro things
Stephen:that happen with technology every single day that actually have a bigger impact.
Stephen:We worry about the big bad wolf out there coming to get your kids, but we don't stop
Stephen:to think about the little small things that are actually eating away at them.
Jessie Liew:Yes, totally agree.
Jessie Liew:And you're right because the phone is actually much more, it's just so mobile
Jessie Liew:and it's actually so small and compact you can actually just, you just bring it
Jessie Liew:even to anywhere, even to your washroom.
Stephen:Yeah, I cannot tell you the number of people that have, It's become
Stephen:a joke to them that they, they go to the bathroom to look at their phone.
Stephen:They don't go to the bathroom to use the bathroom.
Stephen:They go to look at their phone.
Stephen:Yes, yes.
Stephen:I know a few of them as well.
Stephen:Yes.
Stephen:Like why are you in there for 45 minutes?
Stephen:'cause you're watching TikTok videos, right,
Stephen:. Jessie Liew: Yes, totally agree.
Stephen:And, and that's why that, I think it's actually very important because if that,
Stephen:say we waste a generations that is all of them, or most of them, they're actually
Stephen:addicted, network to the platform, then we may have, we what kind of generations
Stephen:we are actually raising right now.
Stephen:They are the futures for us.
Stephen:And therefore, we actually need to step up as a parent to actually help
Stephen:them to regulate their screen time and actually empower them to actually use it.
Stephen:Because at the end of the day, technology is just a tool.
Stephen:Yeah.
Stephen:And I think you mentioned earlier about how addictive technology is
Stephen:and how that's by design, right?
Stephen:And we can see this in other places.
Stephen:I know junk food is the same way.
Stephen:They, Jump food has been scientifically engineered to be addictive and people
Stephen:wonder why they can't let go of it, right?
Stephen:But when you look at technology, there are some benefits to the
Stephen:way that it's set up, right?
Stephen:For example, if you've been trying to make positive changes in your life
Stephen:and you're listening to a show like this, more than likely, you found this
Stephen:show because you started listening to other shows about habits and
Stephen:making positive changes in your life.
Stephen:And the platform went, Oh, you might this show.
Stephen:And so that's probably how you found me is by that technology that is in place that
Stephen:those addictive processes that they use.
Stephen:It benefited you here, but.
Stephen:A lot of times, those same processes aren't helping you, especially if
Stephen:you find yourself going down the wrong rabbit hole, then now you
Stephen:get pulled further in that way.
Stephen:So that works both ways.
Stephen:I always tell people, there's no such thing as good habits and bad habits.
Stephen:I look at every habit on a spectrum.
Stephen:And the question is, are you on the side of the spectrum that's taking
Stephen:you further away from your goals, or the side of the spectrum that's
Stephen:taking you further towards your goals?
Stephen:Because the habit in and of itself is not inherently bad, but that's
Stephen:what people tend to think of.
Stephen:They think good habit, bad habit.
Stephen:And I think technology is the same, right?
Stephen:It's not necessarily that technology itself is bad, but if you get on the
Stephen:wrong side of the spectrum, it can be bad.
Jessie Liew:Yeah, I totally agree.
Jessie Liew:And actually, what I find actually about fascinating about technology is when
Jessie Liew:I realized, and I saw and witnessed on my second son, his name is Wei.
Jessie Liew:And actually Wei likes to do drawing and he learned all his drawing on the
Jessie Liew:YouTube kids and basically he learned his drawing skills and now he's doing it.
Jessie Liew:Uh, as a seven year old at the time, I realized that he was drawing
Jessie Liew:very beautiful Star Trek Spider Man drawing and it's just like
Jessie Liew:as good as those in the comics.
Jessie Liew:And I realized that, wow, if you use it in the right way, it can actually empower
Jessie Liew:you to pursue things that you like, to pursue things that in line with your
Jessie Liew:values and your purpose and your passion.
Stephen:So I think this is actually a really good one because, I think at
Stephen:this point, there couldn't be a logical choice that parents make, which is okay.
Stephen:You're right.
Stephen:There, there are benefits to the technology and there are drawbacks.
Stephen:So the natural solution that makes this to a lot of parents, and in case you
Stephen:guys are wondering, this is mistake number one, is they say, I'll just
Stephen:limit and control their screen time.
Stephen:I'll limit what they're looking at, I'll limit how long they get, I'll limit all
Stephen:those things, and I will control what they do, and then that way I can make
Stephen:sure they avoid all the negative stuff.
Stephen:So, so Jessie explains to me why this is a mistake.
Stephen:What's wrong with this?
Jessie Liew:Okay.
Jessie Liew:So what I actually spoken to a lot of parents and when I tried to limit and
Jessie Liew:control my own child's screen time, I realized that there's actually a huge
Jessie Liew:disconnect between me and her because there's a tension that she wanted
Jessie Liew:more, but I wanted her to have less.
Jessie Liew:And then I come to the point that I realized that because my priority
Jessie Liew:for me is my connections with her is the one that I'm really prioritized
Jessie Liew:the most, which means that.
Jessie Liew:Connection with her is the priority for me.
Jessie Liew:So I was actually thinking, how can I have the connections at, at the same
Jessie Liew:time, able to get her to have an ideal or actually not too excessive screen time.
Jessie Liew:And then I start to actually go into another path where I start
Jessie Liew:to empower her to use the screen time, use in the right way.
Jessie Liew:rather than try to control and limit.
Jessie Liew:And as I actually start to work with a lot of parents, I realized that
Jessie Liew:the more they control and limit, there's another drawback, which is
Jessie Liew:there's no safe space communication.
Jessie Liew:Your child don't trust you.
Jessie Liew:You don't trust your child.
Jessie Liew:And then, and because online, they actually spending a lot of
Jessie Liew:time online, like you're right.
Jessie Liew:If they are bullied online, if they are talking to strangers online,
Jessie Liew:maybe they just stumble on something that is not appropriate for them.
Jessie Liew:It could be porn, alcohol, it could be anything, drug, writer.
Jessie Liew:So they may actually see something that they are not comfortable.
Jessie Liew:But let's dive into if we are the child and my parents is trying to control me.
Jessie Liew:Do you think this child wants to talk to the parents?
Jessie Liew:No, right?
Jessie Liew:So I think that come to the child's perspective, if I talk to
Jessie Liew:my parents, I'll be quite school.
Jessie Liew:I'll be a little bit more.
Jessie Liew:I can't even have my screen time.
Jessie Liew:And therefore they try to actually shield and they start to have lying.
Jessie Liew:They start to, uh, they try to actually do hanky panky and sometimes because they
Jessie Liew:all of their peers, because right now I think that especially if most of the
Jessie Liew:countries from my understanding is that you are in the secondary school, means
Jessie Liew:that you are 13 and above, 95 percent of them, they already have a smartphone.
Jessie Liew:And then like the peer pressure is high.
Jessie Liew:And sometimes the peer pressure will actually push them to
Jessie Liew:do something that's stupid.
Jessie Liew:This is a stupid thing, but I'm having the peer pressure.
Jessie Liew:So I can't go to my parents.
Jessie Liew:I have this bad influence.
Jessie Liew:I'm stuck in between.
Jessie Liew:And then the child may actually need to do, need, or just fall into the peer
Jessie Liew:pressure and do some stupid stuff as well.
Jessie Liew:And sometimes there are, there can be a line, a line, which means that, oh,
Jessie Liew:your mom don't give you Instagram, no problem, you create account
Jessie Liew:in my phone, which happens a lot.
Jessie Liew:So from my clients come to me, I don't allow her to install
Jessie Liew:Instagram, no problem, she install in her friend's phone.
Jessie Liew:I think this is even worse, right?
Jessie Liew:So I think that's one of the reasons why I think that limiting and
Jessie Liew:controlling is likely the worst idea.
Jessie Liew:Because yes, they need to be limited.
Jessie Liew:But the way you do it, it shouldn't be like, Oh, you should have
Jessie Liew:only 30 minutes of screen time.
Jessie Liew:Because the more you try to limit and control, Your child actually
Jessie Liew:sees it as a science resource.
Stephen:Yeah, it's interesting, right?
Stephen:Because when you start to restrict, what that does is it creates a
Stephen:cylinder of deprivation, right?
Stephen:That fumble kicks in, right?
Stephen:It's that, I must be missing out on something.
Stephen:And I think a lot of adults can actually maybe relate to this if you start thinking
Stephen:about things like when you try to go on a diet and that diet is really strict
Stephen:and it becomes difficult because you feel like you're missing out on the foods
Stephen:that you want to eat or you feel like you can't go hang out with people because
Stephen:there's going to be alcohol involved or you're going to be eating foods that
Stephen:aren't on your diet or whatever, right?
Stephen:And the more that you try to restrict yourself in those ways.
Stephen:The more the temptation kicks in right and even think about as a kid or thinking
Stephen:about as when I was a kid I still I maybe had four or five people around me that
Stephen:would influence me in negative ways Right today you can literally have hundreds
Stephen:if not thousands of people that can negatively influence him at any given time
Jessie Liew:Yes, totally agree Yeah, and you're right.
Jessie Liew:You are so precise about the food, even when we're not talking about restricting
Jessie Liew:the swing chart, if we restrict the food, I think that all of us will deprive.
Jessie Liew:And that's why those people who actually go for the dieting, most of them fail.
Stephen:Yeah, not to mention the fact that it's limiting only solves
Stephen:the problem temporarily, right?
Stephen:It's not fixing the overall issue.
Stephen:And as you said, just like when we were kids, we were pretty resourceful.
Stephen:We were pretty good at getting around things that we weren't supposed to be
Stephen:doing and kids today are no different.
Stephen:So if you limit them at home, they're just going to find a
Stephen:ways to get us somewhere else.
Stephen:Whether that's a friend's phone or whatever, they're just going to find
Stephen:other ways to get that fixed because.
Stephen:When they go to school and all their friends are talking about whatever
Stephen:TV show came on, or whatever meme got posted, or whatever, now all of
Stephen:a sudden, they feel left out, right?
Stephen:They don't feel like they're in, so they have to get that fixed so
Stephen:they can be a part of the crowd.
Stephen:Yes, totally agree.
Stephen:The second mistake that a lot of people make, and guys, just so you know, this
Stephen:is Just going to be three out of 20 mistakes that Jessie has lied out that
Stephen:people make and I know Jessie also has a webinar Where she goes through these
Stephen:20 mistakes more in depth So we're giving you the big three today But I
Stephen:just wanted you to be aware that even outside of those three there are 17 more
Stephen:mistakes That you might be making highly would encourage you go check that out.
Stephen:And at the end of this episode, Jesse is going to give you a link
Stephen:where you can go and check that out.
Stephen:And it will also be in the show notes as well.
Stephen:The second thing is this, what.
Stephen:Excuse me, if I can talk here.
Stephen:The second mistake that people are making is they try to use rules.
Stephen:And I think this is a natural extension of the first mistake, right?
Stephen:So you're trying to limit your child's screen time.
Stephen:They resist.
Stephen:They fight it.
Stephen:They sneak around.
Stephen:They try to do all these things.
Stephen:It leads to a bunch of yelling and arguing or whatever.
Stephen:And at some point, you start to feel powerless and you go, Oh.
Stephen:I'm the parent.
Stephen:This is what we're doing.
Stephen:And you make rules.
Stephen:And Jessie, explain to us why making rules does not work.
Jessie Liew:Okay.
Jessie Liew:So when you actually make rules, so a lot of times we actually
Jessie Liew:just come, Oh, this is the rules.
Jessie Liew:I'm your parent.
Jessie Liew:Just follow it.
Jessie Liew:And all that.
Jessie Liew:So I think that it depends on your child's personality.
Jessie Liew:If your child is a person who likes to follow through and
Jessie Liew:he's more obedient, maybe you actually follow through the rules.
Jessie Liew:But not every kid is like that.
Jessie Liew:Agree?
Jessie Liew:So, so when you actually put on the rule, you're actually pushing it on your child.
Jessie Liew:And when you're actually pushing it on your child, do you think
Jessie Liew:that they own the accountability to follow through the rules?
Stephen:Probably not.
Stephen:Most of them, no.
Jessie Liew:So you got it, right?
Jessie Liew:So you want them to hold the accountability.
Jessie Liew:So when you want them to hold the accountability, you need to set,
Jessie Liew:you have to hold them wide together.
Jessie Liew:Like you have a clear boundaries why this is set.
Jessie Liew:And this boundaries is actually set because it's for the child.
Jessie Liew:Us, for you and me and for us.
Stephen:Mm hmm.
Jessie Liew:And then when the child realizes that, wow I have the power to
Jessie Liew:contribute to this, and it's actually in my power, I want to follow through.
Jessie Liew:Because at the end of the day, there's no point having the rules tell, tick
Jessie Liew:tick, and asking, okay, follow through.
Jessie Liew:But when your child actually cannot follow through, and refuse or resists
Jessie Liew:to follow through, you want them to get them, you want them to get their buy in.
Jessie Liew:Maybe some of the parents, they may disagree, you shouldn't negotiate with
Jessie Liew:your child, Because I, I got that a lot as well, that you shouldn't negotiate
Jessie Liew:with your child, you are the parents, you should say A, he should follow A.
Jessie Liew:But that's not the parenting in this digital era works, because like they
Jessie Liew:have exposure to a lot of things online.
Jessie Liew:Unlike us, I think back me and you, we could be a bit like, I quite blah blah,
Jessie Liew:because we don't have much exposure, and we don't have much influence.
Jessie Liew:But now with the phone, with the internet, they have more exposure.
Jessie Liew:They are more informed.
Jessie Liew:They have more information come to their brain and they're precise.
Jessie Liew:And then they may think, why should I be following you through these stupid rules?
Stephen:Yeah, I think something to consider here for people
Stephen:who may go, I am the parent.
Stephen:They need to learn to follow the rules.
Stephen:They need to learn to be obedient.
Stephen:All those things, right?
Stephen:I hear you.
Stephen:I do.
Stephen:But, It's rather interesting.
Stephen:I like to bring this conversation back to other areas of health
Stephen:because I think it makes it more easily for people to relate to it.
Stephen:Because when we're talking about mistakes that you might be making
Stephen:as a parent, it's very easy, especially with me not having kids.
Stephen:I will get it a lot of times, like, you don't understand.
Stephen:You can't, you're not a parent.
Stephen:You're not allowed to speak.
Stephen:That's right.
Stephen:I get that a lot.
Stephen:And at least by bringing you on, you have the authority because you are a parent.
Stephen:You can actually talk about this, right?
Stephen:But I think what happens is sometimes emotions get involved when we start
Stephen:telling people that they might be making a mistake as a parent.
Stephen:So I like to relate this out to other areas so that people
Stephen:can see how this mistake might play out without the emotion.
Stephen:And it's very similar to, again, going back to the idea of strict dieting.
Stephen:Why is it that most people regain the weight that they lose on a diet?
Stephen:It's because diets have all these rules and rules are not sustainable and when
Stephen:you follow the rules, even if you're very obedient to the rules, even if you follow
Stephen:that, even if you get results, what are the rules for maintaining your result?
Stephen:Those are, that's completely different.
Stephen:That's a different circumstance.
Stephen:Even if you are to limit your child's exposure to a screen.
Stephen:Even if you come up with all these rules, and even if you are one
Stephen:of the lucky parents out there that your child is completely
Stephen:ill, teaching them how to do it on their own, once they're away
Stephen:from you, are you teaching them how to not have this issue with
Stephen:the rest of them?
Stephen:And I think that's where I want people to look at.
Jessie Liew:Yes.
Jessie Liew:And actually, I want to actually talk about on that is like
Jessie Liew:when you limit and control.
Jessie Liew:You use the limit and control strategy, right?
Jessie Liew:That's one key success of this is you have to be there all the time.
Jessie Liew:But realistically, as parents, it is very hard to be there all the time, right?
Jessie Liew:Because you have so many things that you have to do.
Jessie Liew:So you, when you are not there, then your child will be
Jessie Liew:just addicted to the screens.
Jessie Liew:You're like, good, my mom is not sure.
Jessie Liew:So let's go to the screens and they will be spending 8 hours, 9
Jessie Liew:hours, 10 hours, whatever it is.
Jessie Liew:And that's why you need to teach them.
Jessie Liew:To self regulate so that they can actually stop on their own.
Stephen:And here's the thing, guys, I want to make sure
Stephen:that y'all get this right.
Stephen:With the first mistake, you're trying to limit their time, right?
Stephen:So you're trying to control and you get pushback.
Stephen:And this is going to create frustration for you, right?
Stephen:So then you go to the second mistake, which is you start
Stephen:to put rules in place, right?
Stephen:So the first time it's more like an asking, Hey, can we put the screen away?
Stephen:Whatever, right?
Stephen:And now you're actually Making demands.
Stephen:Now you're like, you can only use the screen two hours a day, right?
Stephen:And this now creates even more pushback, more resistance, which then
Stephen:creates more frustration for you.
Stephen:And then, you actually have two mistakes here.
Stephen:I'm going to combine these if that's okay.
Stephen:So the first is that here's we'll focus on correcting the behavior.
Stephen:And then the second one I think is actually like, excuse me, really
Stephen:tightly connected here is that parents react to the child's misbehavior.
Stephen:And, and I'm combining those because I think what happens sometimes is people
Stephen:will focus on correcting the behavior.
Stephen:And if we're trying to correct the behavior, then that means
Stephen:that we think the behavior is bad and therefore it's misbehavior.
Stephen:And now parents are getting more frustrated and now they're raising their
Stephen:voice and they're yelling and then guys I want you to stop and think here for
Stephen:a second and Jesse I might be stealing your answer here But you are actually
Stephen:now teaching your child a whole new set of skills That are probably even worse
Stephen:than the screen time, which is how to not handle conflict management Right.
Stephen:So other than that, is there anything else about focusing on correcting
Stephen:behavior that you see as a mistake?
Stephen:Why is that a mistake for people?
Jessie Liew:Okay.
Jessie Liew:So when you correct the behavior, it's not that we do not need
Jessie Liew:to correct the behavior.
Jessie Liew:So I want to actually make like disclaimer.
Jessie Liew:It's not that we do not need to correct the behavior, but when our focus starts
Jessie Liew:to correct their behavior, we will start to tell them that you're wrong.
Jessie Liew:You have the problems.
Jessie Liew:And then.
Jessie Liew:your child, let's dive into the child situation right now and his position, he
Jessie Liew:will feel like, Oh, so I have the problem.
Jessie Liew:And, and anyone who is being criticized, what will be the
Jessie Liew:likelihood that he will listen to you?
Jessie Liew:It will be in the denial or defiance mode.
Jessie Liew:And I can actually say that like his rule of defense starts to go
Stephen:up.
Stephen:And
Jessie Liew:literally what you tell him that is wrong, it's not
Jessie Liew:going to reach him because his rule of defense is like so high.
Jessie Liew:Right?
Jessie Liew:So, in order for us to get them to listen and understand why is this a problem,
Stephen:we
Jessie Liew:need to calm ourselves down.
Jessie Liew:Literally, actually, most of the people were there, I need to correct
Jessie Liew:the child, I need to fix the child.
Jessie Liew:But actually, most of the time, I need to control myself first.
Jessie Liew:So that I can respond because when, of course, when as a parent, when we see our
Jessie Liew:child misbehave, of course, we are angry.
Jessie Liew:Of course, we are disappointed.
Jessie Liew:Of course, we feel like maybe there's a lot of shame and guilt into that, right?
Jessie Liew:We have all that.
Jessie Liew:And I have, I'm being a parent.
Jessie Liew:I have that too.
Jessie Liew:Yeah, all of us had that.
Jessie Liew:But when we actually act from that position, we reacted.
Jessie Liew:And with the reactions, when you shout, yell, your child's defense
Jessie Liew:system, the wall is actually as high, it's higher than him.
Jessie Liew:He's not listening to you.
Jessie Liew:And you also learn to yell and And that's really what he learns.
Jessie Liew:And that's not something that we want to happen.
Jessie Liew:And that's why we need to work on ourselves, calm down ourselves first, so
Jessie Liew:that we can respond to the misbehavior.
Jessie Liew:And when the child is calm now, and he felt that, I'm being heard, I am
Jessie Liew:being understood, and I'm being heard.
Jessie Liew:Then, he would want to listen to you.
Jessie Liew:What is your opinion as well?
Stephen:Yeah, so what you're really saying is, yes, we want to correct the
Stephen:behavior, but when we start trying to do it from a place of authority, when we're
Stephen:limiting, we're controlling, we're setting rules, and we're really focused on how
Stephen:do I correct the behavior, and then we're reacting to What we see is disobedience.
Stephen:What we're doing is we're creating a really negative loop, where as the parent
Stephen:we're gonna be frustrated, but at the same time You are mentally affecting
Stephen:the child because now they're being constantly told that they're stupid,
Stephen:that they're making mistakes, and that may not be the words you're using, but
Stephen:that's what they're hearing, right?
Stephen:And that can really lower their self worth, their self confidence.
Stephen:It can really have an impact on them, and then guess what?
Stephen:If you are telling them, stop doing this, this is wrong, you shouldn't be
Stephen:doing this, and you're making them feel bad, you're making them Remember, there
Stephen:are literally billions of dollars being spent on making this stuff addictive.
Stephen:It's not just as simple as, hey, turn off your screen, right?
Stephen:It's, you're basically making someone who has a billion dollar industry fighting
Stephen:for their attention feel bad about their inability to put down the phone.
Stephen:And, what do you think is gonna happen when you do that, guys?
Stephen:You're, they're going to go to that technology, they're gonna find ways
Stephen:to go get it, Because guess what?
Stephen:When they post a picture on Instagram, or they post a video on TikTok, or whatever,
Stephen:they are going to get likes and comments, and it's going to make them feel better.
Stephen:So if at home I'm being yelled at, being told to stop doing something, online
Stephen:I'm being praised and applauded, where do you think they're going to turn?
Jessie Liew:The technology lead.
Jessie Liew:The technology obviously.
Jessie Liew:And that's why you want them to feel that this is a place that
Jessie Liew:they are being appreciated, they are seen, they are loved.
Jessie Liew:And therefore, they want to, actually most of us, we want something in real life.
Jessie Liew:We are not long in something in the virtual world, because it's not
Jessie Liew:something that you can touch at home.
Jessie Liew:Right?
Jessie Liew:So for a child, it's actually the same.
Jessie Liew:I bet that most of the child, they all want the connections with the parents.
Jessie Liew:They want to be hugged.
Jessie Liew:They want to be praised.
Jessie Liew:They want to be told that they are enough.
Jessie Liew:And when they feel there's enough and they are praised, and then it's actually
Jessie Liew:easy to get them back so that they not continue to be addicted to the script.
Stephen:And I think you pointed out earlier, even as adults,
Stephen:we tend to spend a lot of time on devices or on social media.
Stephen:We're looking at news stories, we're watching YouTube videos, whatever, right?
Stephen:And it can be very easy to get caught up in that world yourself.
Stephen:And now you're, and then you're modeling these behaviors.
Stephen:But, I know that's something you talk about a lot.
Stephen:A little bit more in depth on your webinar and things like that.
Stephen:So we won't give away everything here.
Stephen:When you start to look at this, I think a little bit of empathy towards your
Stephen:child goes a long ways and correct me if I'm wrong here, but I feel
Stephen:if you can understand why this is a difficult thing for your child to
Stephen:break free from by maybe looking at your own behaviors and realizing that
Stephen:it's not even easy for you to do it.
Stephen:And you can stop looking at this as.
Stephen:a mistake that your child is making and stop focusing on correcting that
Stephen:behavior like we just talked about and instead start to understand
Stephen:what it is that your child needs.
Stephen:Start to get in tune with what they actually are missing out on that
Stephen:social media is giving them and then find ways to give that to them.
Stephen:That's really what the solution is here, right?
Jessie Liew:Yes, absolutely.
Jessie Liew:Because like sometimes why the kids they are addicted, they are
Jessie Liew:actually looking for some something.
Jessie Liew:could be something that to fulfill their connections.
Jessie Liew:Perhaps they don't have the connections back at home, but in the world
Jessie Liew:travel, everybody is praising him.
Jessie Liew:Oh, you're so good.
Jessie Liew:You're so beautiful.
Jessie Liew:It feels good, right?
Jessie Liew:And our dopamine start to kick in.
Jessie Liew:And then, of course, they're looking for connection.
Jessie Liew:They're looking for approval.
Jessie Liew:And they're also looking for some acknowledgement or maybe accomplishment.
Jessie Liew:That's why the gaming, a lot of kids, they are actually tied to
Jessie Liew:the gaming because all this gaming actually give them accomplishment.
Jessie Liew:Okay, I like Oh!
Jessie Liew:I got how many goals, I got how many levels, I have achieved how many,
Jessie Liew:uh, reward from the game itself.
Jessie Liew:So you need to actually realize that, hey, actually all these are
Jessie Liew:actually coming into the picture.
Jessie Liew:And sometimes when we actually have empathy, we realize that
Jessie Liew:it's actually not the gaming.
Jessie Liew:It is actually not the gaming.
Jessie Liew:It's something that your child is lacking.
Jessie Liew:And it's something that he needs.
Jessie Liew:And your job is actually to, Understand and look at it and see
Jessie Liew:how you can actually meet that needs so that he do not need to come to
Jessie Liew:the games to fulfill that need.
Stephen:Yeah, and I think so much of that really is understanding
Stephen:that, again, going back to what we talked about earlier, these things
Stephen:are not inherently bad, right?
Stephen:There's no problem with your kid playing games.
Stephen:The problem is when the game becomes more important to them than
Stephen:everything else, and that's happening because something is missing.
Stephen:That game is giving them something that they don't think they're
Stephen:getting from somewhere else.
Jessie Liew:Yes, absolutely.
Jessie Liew:And then bearing in mind that for Charles, it's very, Because they are
Jessie Liew:still discovering their own identity.
Jessie Liew:They do not have the focus and attention.
Jessie Liew:You are already 45.
Jessie Liew:You have your purpose.
Jessie Liew:You mentioned some of your things that about the spiritual, emotional, mental.
Jessie Liew:So you are actually very clear about that.
Jessie Liew:But for a child, they are just beginning of their journey.
Jessie Liew:They have no idea what is emotional, spiritual, mental, physical and all that.
Jessie Liew:They are still discovering their own identity.
Jessie Liew:And that's where it is actually very hard for them to pull back from these devices.
Stephen:So
Jessie Liew:I think that it's really about helping them to discovering who they
Stephen:are,
Jessie Liew:acknowledging them so that they can actually use that elegy to pursue
Jessie Liew:what they are actually passionate about.
Stephen:Yeah, I, I teach a concept when it comes to getting
Stephen:healthy, like physically healthy.
Stephen:So when we talk about things like diet and exercise and sleep and
Stephen:stress management and all that kind of stuff, people, I find, have a
Stephen:tendency to do some of the exact same mistakes that they're making with
Stephen:their child's screen time right there.
Stephen:They try to limit their access to certain stuff, they create rules,
Stephen:they beat themselves up, especially a lot of my guys out there are mentally
Stephen:beating themselves up inside every time they do something stupid or that they,
Stephen:something they view stupid, right?
Stephen:Let me clarify that, but it's like, Oh, I'm so lazy.
Stephen:I skipped my workout today, or so stupid because I stopped for fast food
Stephen:instead of eating my food I had at home.
Stephen:And they say negative things to themselves and they do all this stuff.
Stephen:And.
Stephen:What's happening is they're creating this identity for themselves.
Stephen:And if you can have this happen in people who are already 30s, 40s, 50s, even 60s.
Stephen:I see this where people are literally changing their identity through
Stephen:their thoughts and their words.
Stephen:Imagine what this is like for someone who doesn't even know who
Stephen:they are in the first place yet.
Stephen:That's crazy, right?
Jessie Liew:Yes, and that's why they are very easily distracted,
Jessie Liew:like their focus and attention, because they do not have a goal.
Jessie Liew:You already know what is your goal for your mental, spiritual,
Jessie Liew:physical and your life purpose.
Jessie Liew:You already have it, so you already plan it down and you know
Jessie Liew:what is your focus and attention.
Jessie Liew:But for a child, I'm still discovering myself.
Jessie Liew:Yeah, I don't have a life purpose.
Jessie Liew:I have no idea what I want.
Jessie Liew:And then, and that's where all the platform, the YouTube, the TikTok,
Jessie Liew:Instagram, it's actually just pull them away into the rabbit hole and
Jessie Liew:then they no idea what they want.
Jessie Liew:'cause they are just saying, oh, it seems to be good to be
Jessie Liew:like that, but when will it be?
Jessie Liew:Is that what you want?
Jessie Liew:Yeah.
Stephen:They not real.
Stephen:Yeah, they're, that's what other people told them they should be.
Stephen:Right.
Stephen:And that's something that I feel like a lot of people, what they end up doing
Stephen:when they're depriving themselves of stuff and they have this restrictive mindset, a
Stephen:couple of things, number one is it makes you want things that much more because
Stephen:when, as one of my mentors taught me, and I say this a lot, is all behaviors
Stephen:are an attempt to solve a problem, right?
Stephen:And when we start restricting, restricting ourself, what we're
Stephen:really doing is we're taking away the solution to a problem, and we're
Stephen:not replacing it with a new solution.
Stephen:And when we do that, we now are trying to fight against something that we want
Stephen:to do, something that makes us feel good.
Stephen:We're taking that away from ourselves.
Stephen:We're having to use all this willpower.
Stephen:And you're actually now having to deal with the actual problem
Stephen:that thing was solving for you.
Stephen:And it's this double whammy.
Stephen:And guys, think about how hard that might be for you as an adult to deal with.
Stephen:And then again, going back to imagine your child who is still trying to
Stephen:figure out who they are in the world.
Stephen:And I think Eva, I could take this a step further for a lot of
Stephen:the fathers out there right now.
Stephen:And think about the things that you do at work, that you do as a
Stephen:father, that you do as a husband.
Stephen:Not because they're necessarily who you want to be, but because that's
Stephen:what society's told you to be.
Stephen:That's what other men in your life told you that you're supposed to do.
Stephen:Those are rules that you're filling in a way that is not
Stephen:necessarily authentic to you, but they're what society has told you.
Stephen:And think about how those are not creating happiness for you.
Stephen:And this is why I think a lot of men are walking around right now.
Stephen:They've got great jobs.
Stephen:They've got wonderful families.
Stephen:And still and yet, they feel like they're missing something.
Stephen:They feel like something is missing in their life that they
Stephen:don't have a deeper purpose.
Stephen:And that's because you're not living your authentic self.
Stephen:You're living other people's version of your life.
Stephen:And that's what's happening to children when they're not getting their needs met
Stephen:and they're turning to technology and they end up living other people's perception
Stephen:of what their life is supposed to be instead of being authentic to themselves.
Jessie Liew:Yes, 100 percent agree.
Jessie Liew:And actually, I must actually say this is true.
Jessie Liew:'cause when you actually mention it, I, I can actually
Jessie Liew:reflect 'cause that it was me.
Jessie Liew:I was actually having good career in cybersecurity.
Jessie Liew:I have all the things that the society tell me.
Jessie Liew:I have all the tick, tick, tick, but I was actually depressed inside.
Jessie Liew:Then I realized that it's actually something is wrong with me or
Jessie Liew:something for, with like the perception that I must meet.
Jessie Liew:And then that's where I start to begin my personal relevant journey and I
Jessie Liew:start to discover more about myself and living my life authentically.
Stephen:Yeah, that's why in my coaching program, the first thing that
Stephen:we always focus on is your vision.
Stephen:Right?
Stephen:Creating a vision for who you want to actually be.
Stephen:Right?
Stephen:Because most of us, we're not living authentically.
Stephen:We're not living to be what we want to be.
Stephen:We've been living by other people's rules for so long that
Stephen:we don't even know what we want.
Stephen:And so that's the first thing I always work with people on is getting
Stephen:clear on who do you want to become?
Stephen:What do you want your life to look like?
Stephen:Not what do you think your life should look like, but what do you
Stephen:actually want it to look like?
Stephen:And I think that's something that you can apply to your children here and start to
Stephen:help them understand the person that they want to become and let them be able to see
Stephen:that they don't have to be this person.
Stephen:That everyone else expects them to be.
Jessie Liew:Yes, and I see, I think that you also cover
Jessie Liew:one of the mistakes as well.
Jessie Liew:They continue to use the same parenting style that our parents are parenting us.
Jessie Liew:And they just use, continue to use the same parenting
Jessie Liew:belief that was passed down.
Jessie Liew:And actually, this parenting beliefs may not be your own parenting beliefs.
Jessie Liew:It's just that the culture told you that you must meet this in order
Jessie Liew:to be, uh, bring so called you fame or to not, how do I say it?
Jessie Liew:Not respecting your legacies or something like that.
Jessie Liew:Yeah, it's something that we actually need to actually honor our characters to
Jessie Liew:become who they are, rather than trying to pass down and bring our parenting beliefs
Jessie Liew:and actually try to push on to them.
Jessie Liew:Which in turn, they, it's not who they want to be and they
Jessie Liew:just turn into the technology.
Stephen:Yeah, because we're always going to turn to the thing
Stephen:that's going to give us what we need in the simplest way, right?
Stephen:It doesn't matter if that thing is good for us or not.
Stephen:We are always going to look for the simplest solution because just by nature,
Stephen:if you have your problem, you want to solve it as fast as possible, right?
Stephen:And so we turn to the quickest thing.
Stephen:It's like when you're tired.
Stephen:What do you do?
Stephen:You reach for caffeine and you reach for sugar.
Stephen:Why?
Stephen:Because they instant energy boost.
Stephen:No one says to themself, I'm so tired.
Stephen:Let me go and get some lean protein, some good digesting carbs.
Stephen:Nobody does that.
Stephen:It would make sense.
Stephen:It's the most logical thing to do in terms of what's the healthiest thing.
Stephen:But we don't do that.
Stephen:We reach for candy bars and sodas and coffee.
Stephen:Because why?
Stephen:It doesn't matter if those things are healthy for us or not.
Stephen:They give us energy and that's what we need.
Stephen:And that's why children are really turning to technology so much.
Stephen:It's just giving them what they need and it's giving it to them instantaneously.
Stephen:Yes, absolutely.
Stephen:So Jesse, if someone's out there right now and they're listening and they're
Stephen:thinking, Yes, I'm making these mistakes.
Stephen:And I see what you're saying about helping my child kinda start to
Stephen:develop their identity and, and be able to connect with them better
Stephen:and, and fulfilling their needs.
Stephen:But I don't know where to start.
Stephen:I'm lost right now.
Stephen:I, I hear what you're saying, but I don't know how to do that.
Stephen:Uh, I'm thinking your webinar is probably gonna be the best
Stephen:place for them to do that.
Stephen:So how do they download this list of 20 mistakes they might be making as
Stephen:well as get access to the webinar?
Jessie Liew:Okay.
Jessie Liew:So basically the webinar is actually called 20 painful mistakes that
Jessie Liew:parents regret making in their child's screen time and how to avoid them.
Jessie Liew:You can actually go to this link bit.
Jessie Liew:ly slash screen time mistake.
Jessie Liew:Okay.
Jessie Liew:So it's bit.
Jessie Liew:ly slash screen time mistakes.
Stephen:Screen time mistakes.
Stephen:Okay.
Stephen:And I will put that in the show notes for people as well.
Stephen:Just that way they can just click on it.
Jessie Liew:Sure.
Jessie Liew:Thank you so much.
Stephen:And if people just want to get a hold of you for anything in general,
Stephen:or they just want to maybe follow you, what's the best way for them to do that?
Jessie Liew:They can actually follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook.
Jessie Liew:I'm actually more active on Facebook and LinkedIn.
Jessie Liew:So they can actually find me at Jesse Liu, S P J E S I E L I E W and S and P.
Stephen:Alright.
Stephen:Thank you so much for coming today.
Stephen:Do you have any final thoughts or anything that maybe we didn't talk about today
Stephen:that you want to leave people with?
Jessie Liew:Yes, I think I recover actually quite a lot and I really
Jessie Liew:encourage parents to actually go and actually listen to the web.
Jessie Liew:To the webinar, because those parents who actually come to limit and control
Jessie Liew:the screen time, they realize that it's getting harder and harder when
Jessie Liew:their child turning to teenager.
Jessie Liew:And by, I think, 13, 14, 15, it's going to be hard.
Jessie Liew:And by 15, most of them, they felt that they are literally losing that.
Jessie Liew:So please start doing these changes before when they are young, and
Jessie Liew:not only to want to do this when they are much older, like 17, 18.
Jessie Liew:Yeah,
Stephen:and I'll just add from something that I've taken from this today is
Stephen:I feel like for a lot of parents.
Stephen:As you said, one of those mistakes is focusing on correcting the
Stephen:behavior, and so this can very much become about limiting screen time.
Stephen:How do I get my kid off the screen?
Stephen:But, through our conversation today, what I've really seen is that this
Stephen:isn't about limiting screen time per se.
Stephen:That's the process, right?
Stephen:That's what we're doing, but what this is really about is allowing you as a
Stephen:parent to better connect with your child.
Jessie Liew:Yes, absolutely.
Jessie Liew:And then you actually discover that they actually use the technology responsibly.
Jessie Liew:They actually use it because they are empowered.
Jessie Liew:They know that they have the power and they have to use
Jessie Liew:the technology responsibly.
Jessie Liew:And they're actually able to stay safe online.
Jessie Liew:And the best part is they also have the safe space communications.
Jessie Liew:So I remember I just interviewed one of my students, Sarah.
Jessie Liew:And she was actually sharing, she actually joined the program when she became really
Jessie Liew:desperate, like when she saw her nine year old child was sneaking at midnight
Jessie Liew:to play computer games, and when she actually go through the computer, she
Jessie Liew:realized that she was searching for porn, and it just got her freaked out,
Jessie Liew:and she was just really into everything.
Jessie Liew:that I saved.
Jessie Liew:So, but right, I, I think the child able to do it, the, use the text responsibly.
Jessie Liew:She actually fulfilled her basic responsibility first,
Jessie Liew:before the computer games.
Jessie Liew:She used it mindfully, and she actually recognized that on
Jessie Liew:the game, it's not always fun.
Jessie Liew:When it's actually not fun anymore, it's actually time to get, get out.
Jessie Liew:And she recognized that.
Jessie Liew:And this is a child which is more conscious.
Jessie Liew:And then the best part is when she shared that.
Jessie Liew:A child actually shared with her that actually I was surfing the phone and
Jessie Liew:then that and the conversation is actually close and it's actually a very
Jessie Liew:beautiful conversations that the child was feeling safe who shared that in
Jessie Liew:the past I have been doing something wrong and that the relationship actually
Jessie Liew:becomes more deeper, deeper connection.
Stephen:Yeah, I imagine that's probably a very uncomfortable
Stephen:conversation for a parent to have, but at the same time, I can only
Stephen:imagine how good that would feel to.
Stephen:Know that you have such a relationship with your child that they feel
Stephen:comfortable even coming to you and admitting something like that.
Stephen:It's a really cool story.
Jessie Liew:Yes, I love that story very much as well.
Stephen:Awesome.
Stephen:Jessie, thank you so much for coming again.
Stephen:Guys, again, I highly encourage, I'll put the links in the show notes, but
Stephen:download that PDF, The 20 Painful Mistakes That Parents Regret Making
Stephen:With Their Children's Screen Time.
Stephen:You can sign up for the webinar as well, and also feel free to connect
Stephen:with and follow Jesse on social media.
Stephen:We won't give you any rules for how much time you're allowed to spend following
Stephen:Jesse because that would be a mistake.
Stephen:You can self regulate.
Stephen:But guys, as always, I want to remind you that while none of us are born
Stephen:unshakable, we can all become unshakable.
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